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Hybrid vs. Pop-up...input?
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15 Posts
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April 7, 2014 - 1:40 pm
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Hi all. Looking at both hybrids and pop-ups. I've read the pros and cons on both in previous posts, but does anyone have experience with both resulting in time-tested wisdom? I have three boys and I work long(er) hours so my wife will be towing and setting up. Let me state first, her skills are undeniably great. I'm just looking to make the setup process as easy as possible for her, while herding three little boys around.
We like the open, tent-like feel of the pop-ups, but we also plan to go to the beach and other hot places, where AC will be important. I've heard pop-AC isn't the greatest. I also wonder about the pop-up in bad weather. I'm not expecting vault-like security, but I want to make sure they will be okay if I'm not camping with them.
Finally, prices. I've seen 15-17 foot hybrids going for 13-17k, which is a lot, but not too much more than a new pop-up, (depending on trim of course). Also, a good, new-er used Coleman or Fleetwood costs 8-12k as well!
What to do, what to do...
Thanks for your feedback!
Jason

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April 7, 2014 - 1:53 pm
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I have a class C but had 2 pup's before and was looking at a HTT before I found the ClassC.

I was in a popup during a real bad rainstorm with heavy winds and rain.  I was at a flea market so there was no pulling out, I had to ride it out with my cousin.  Thankfully I was able to pull vehicles on 3 sides so only 1 side was exposed.  It was rough but it made it through. 

Dealing with 3 little boys, setup, and towing.....the popup can tow the easiest but the Hybrid will have the easiest set up.  Your wife could even NOT set up but still use it until you get there, level, and drop the bunks. 

Matt O 2006 Skyline Nomad 27' travel trailer.  Previously owned 1986 Coleman Columbia / 1992 Coleman Senecca / 1989 Born Free Class C RV.

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April 7, 2014 - 2:32 pm
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We also have kids and the set up and take down time is a bit quicker, but this can also depend on how big the pup is and the hybrid is. plus how much stuff you bring. What we have found to be the big difference is the ease of getting ready for the camping trip. With the hybrid you can walk in an out at any time as compaired to the pup witch you had to raise to pack.

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April 7, 2014 - 7:08 pm
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We started with a pup and had it for 12 years, and we're now going on the 3rd season with our HTT. My  DW had only towed and set up the pup one time without me there. She did fine, with that, but is a little intimidated about towing and backing the HTT into a site because of the lack of view around the camper. Sounds like your DW wouldn't have the same issues, but, if you decide on an HTT, just make sure she has plenty of tow vehicle and a weight distribution / anti sway hitch for safety reasons.
With an HTT, she could get into the site, level side to side, chock the tires and then let the kids go inside the camper with some toys etc., open a window for ear shot and then start the outside set up of unhitching, leveling front to back and deploying the beds etc, all while the kids are safe inside. With a pup there would be more work for her prior to letting the kids out of the car. She would have to level side to side, chock the tires, unhitch, level front to back, raise the roof, deploy the beds, and pretty much have camp set prior to trying to wrangle in the kids.
Both types of campers have their own ups and downs ( no pun intended ) and set up is similar in so many ways for any camper. I guess it's more of a personal decision when deciding between each type.
We loved our pup and have had so many great memories of camping trips with our kids. The kids are now in their late teens and into early adulthood now, so we chose the amenities and ease of access of an HTT over the pup. We really wanted the canvas bunks that we enjoyed so much in our pup with just a little more luxury. We have that in our HTT. Bonus for me is that I can now go out to the camper in the dead of winter and still get a little camping fix.
Hope this helps, good luck with finding what works for you and your family. 

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April 8, 2014 - 4:32 am
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One thing you have to consider first is your tow vehicle. After having both a 19' and now a 23' HTT I can tell you if you have hills and mountains where you live, you're not going to be happy towing or safe with anything other than a full size pickup or SUV.

Others, and some dealers, will tell you that mid size vehicles and mini vans will be ok..................they wont.

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April 8, 2014 - 12:43 pm
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first, a 15'-17' hybrid is not going to be big enough for a family of 5.
and the only company i know of that makes a hybrid under 17', is LivnLite, which are very expensive hybrids with only one canvas bunk end.
not sure where you've found a 15' hybrid. :dunno:

second, do your wife a favor and make sure she has a capable tow vehicle, not a marginal one.

third, having owned two popups, we've found our hybrid to be much easier and pleasant to setup. way more inside storage.

fourth, a hybrid will be easier for temp control. using Popup Gizmos on the tent ends and Reflectix in the tent windows, the a/c and furnace can easily keep the hybrid cool or warm.

fifth, my wife finds the hybrid much easier to tow, than either of our popups. but we have a very capable tow vehicle and an Equal-i-zer WDH and Prodigy brake controller.

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April 8, 2014 - 3:53 pm
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[quote author=bikendan link=topic=2941.msg28501#msg28501 date=1396975407]
my wife finds the hybrid much easier to tow, than either of our popups. but we have a very capable tow vehicle and an Equal-i-zer WDH and Prodigy brake controller.

You can't just leave the statement like that.  What was more difficult about towing the popups?  Did you have a less capable tow vehicle at that time?

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255 Posts
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April 8, 2014 - 5:47 pm
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[quote author=BoomJammer link=topic=2941.msg28504#msg28504 date=1396986838]
You can't just leave the statement like that.  What was more difficult about towing the popups?  Did you have a less capable tow vehicle at that time?

well, the main thing is that the hybrid's tandem axles track better than the popups' single axle. and it has electric brakes and our popups didn't have them.

we also towed the popups with a Ford Ranger and a Ford Explorer Sport, while we tow the hybrid with a v-8 Avalanche.

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Eastern Pennsylvania
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April 8, 2014 - 8:25 pm
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This is mostly a personal opinion and your idea of camping.  We sleep in our camper and do most everything else outside including all our cooking.

There are pro and cons to both hybrid and popups. 
Popups - What I like about popup campers is the openness of windows all around and the higher ceilings of many are about 7'. (I'm 6'4")  Hybrids - They have less steps to step up and you can easily access the camper for packing including food in the refrigerator.

Tow depends as much on your setup then the camper.  Tow capacity, electric brakes, sway bar or weight distribution hitch (WDH), etc.  Both are often close in weight.  I would expect the popups have less wind resistance so if you are towing with the right setup.

Many 12' or larger popups including high walls are very close to the price of a hybrid now that hybrid prices have dropped in the market place.  In the northeast, you can buy a new 12' popup and new 17' hybrid camper for about $14+K.  Both have many of the same features.

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April 9, 2014 - 9:04 am
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Dan,
Thanks for the response.  The Avalanche is on my list of vehicles to check out and consider for our next TV.  Glad to hear you like it!  One of my concerns with any truck is how our 3 kiddos will interact/behave across the rear seat.  We've gotten very accustomed to "dispersed seating" in our minivan.  But we could really use the additional tow capacity of a truck or larger SUV.  ...especially if we move in the direction of a hybrid in the future.

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April 9, 2014 - 10:21 am
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Jason, we have been looking at the Avalanche as well. They drive really nicely and it doesn't feel like a truck compared to Al's Ford 150 B.C. (before the crash). The problem is the Avalanche is no longer being made, and the used ones are still pricey. We also checked out the Suburban as a replacement for our Odyssey. Just hedging our bets with knowing what could replace the Odyssey if it goes.

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255 Posts
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April 9, 2014 - 12:48 pm
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the newer Tahoes, Burbs and Expeditions can get 20+ highway mpg now, with the v-4 feature of the GM 5.3 engine and the 6 spd. trans.
and all can have a third seat. the Burb is exactly the same as the Avalanche, except it has the third row seat/roof, instead of the Avy's truck bed.
and you should be able to tow any current hybrid, if they are properly equipped.

though we have absolutely loved our Avy(and so glad we didn't buy the Ridgeline), it has limited us looking at moving to the dark side. we have had a difficult time finding a TT that we like and be towable by the Avy.
we may move to a 5th wheel and 3/4 ton truck since we're retiring this year and our hybrid will not fit our future RV lifestyle.

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April 9, 2014 - 3:51 pm
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[quote author=bikendan link=topic=2941.msg28524#msg28524 date=1397062113]
Our Avy has limited us. we have had a difficult time finding a TT that we like and be towable by the Avy.

So, what are typical tow ratings for 1/2 ton trucks/SUVs like the Silverado/Sierra/Avalanche/Suburban/Yukon 1500, F-150, Ram 1500, and Expedition?  I fully expect there to be a range of ratings (dependant on the configuration).  What is the range?  ...and what is typical? 

...and in order to stay on-topic, what are typical weights for hybrids?

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April 9, 2014 - 6:59 pm
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[quote author=BoomJammer link=topic=2941.msg28527#msg28527 date=1397073068]
So, what are typical tow ratings for 1/2 ton trucks/SUVs like the Silverado/Sierra/Avalanche/Suburban/Yukon 1500, F-150, Ram 1500, and Expedition?  I fully expect there to be a range of ratings (dependant on the configuration).  What is the range?  ...and what is typical? 

...and in order to stay on-topic, what are typical weights for hybrids?

you really can't compare the tow ratings of trucks vs. SUV's.
trucks can generally have higher payload and tow capacity numbers than SUV's.
some 1/2 ton trucks can be close to a 3/4 ton if you configure it right, since trucks have so many more configuration options, while SUV's dont' . the Ford Ecoboost is an example, with its HD towing option and Max payload option.
my older '07 Avalanche has a towing capacity of 7200lbs.,while a Silverado with similar equipment can tow nearly 9000lbs.
part of that is because the Avalanche is much heavier than a Silverado.

as far as hybrid weights, they can range from 3500lbs. loaded to over 7000lbs. loaded.

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April 10, 2014 - 2:01 pm
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I see.  Thanks!  So you're looking to up your capacity into the 9000+ range in order to be more comfortable towing up to a 7000 lb hybrid?  That makes sense! 

I'm similarly interested in gaining more margin on our 3200 lb (fully loaded) popup.  The minivan is ok, but more margin would be better.  Seems like a Tahoe/Suburban (6000-7000 lbs ratings), Expedition (6000-9000), Sequoia (6500), or an Armada (6000-9000) might be good to look at.

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255 Posts
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April 10, 2014 - 6:54 pm
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[quote author=BoomJammer link=topic=2941.msg28542#msg28542 date=1397152894]
I see.  Thanks!  So you're looking to up your capacity into the 9000+ range in order to be more comfortable towing up to a 7000 lb hybrid?

we're going to be moving out of the hybrid world, since they're aren't a good choice for a retirement lifestyle. especially when we may be on the road for 3 straight months.

we're looking at either a 29' TT that the Avalanche can tow or just upgrade to a 3/4 ton truck and 5th wheel combo and call it good.

we're trying to follow the old saying: "Buy your second trailer, First!"

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April 10, 2014 - 11:26 pm
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Quote
first, a 15'-17' hybrid is not going to be big enough for a family of 5.
and the only company i know of that makes a hybrid under 17', is LivnLite, which are very expensive hybrids with only one canvas bunk end.
not sure where you've found a 15' hybrid. :dunno:
End quote

Jayco makes a 17' HTT that has a GVWR of 3500 lbs.. With two bunk ends and a convertible dinette and/or sofa, it sure looks plenty big enough to fit a family of five...
I really like the pop-ups and we are looking at a few in our area, I guess I just don't understand the difference between 3500lbs of pop-up vs. 3500lbs of travel trailer. 

Thanks for the feedback though! I had the 7-pin connector and the brake controller installed today! Getting closer!
Jason

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April 11, 2014 - 7:53 am
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Jason,
How tall are you?
Those beds in the little Jaycos are only 70 in long (5 ft 10 in).
That is because the trailers are only 7 ft wide vs almost everyone elses 8 ft wide trailers.
If you do fit, it limits resale value as a lot of us need a much longer bed afforded by the 8 ft wide trailers.

As far as the difference between towing a 3500 lb pup and a 3500 lb trailer. It's that 8 ft wall behind you.
You won't know the pup is there, providing you have a decent TV, but you WILL know the TT or HTT is there.
Don't let them fool you that a sloped front tow easier. Only an Airstream will tow significantly easier due to it's rounded shape.
Both Ford and Chrysler limit the frontal area you can tow with less than full size TV's.
Other manufacturers are not quite up to speed with those limitations.
That 8ft wall behind you can very negatively affect the TV, especially when it's less than a full size SUV or PU.

This is a great video of what can happen with too small a TV.
Winds of change

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255 Posts
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April 11, 2014 - 12:01 pm
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[quote author=jthewood link=topic=2941.msg28550#msg28550 date=1397186783]
Quote
first, a 15'-17' hybrid is not going to be big enough for a family of 5.
and the only company i know of that makes a hybrid under 17', is LivnLite, which are very expensive hybrids with only one canvas bunk end.
not sure where you've found a 15' hybrid. :dunno:
End quote

Jayco makes a 17' HTT that has a GVWR of 3500 lbs.. With two bunk ends and a convertible dinette and/or sofa, it sure looks plenty big enough to fit a family of five...

the three smallest Jayco hybrids, the 16XRB and the 17A/Z are 18'4" and 18'6" long respectively.
just because they have a 16 or 17 in the model number, doesn't mean that is their exterior length.
that's why i made the statement of no one currently making a hybrid UNDER 17' other than Livin Lite.

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April 11, 2014 - 2:31 pm
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Two threads about the same topic ???   

Here is what I just added to the other thread.... 

After reading this post and your post about your TV (tow vehicle), I figured I'f come back here to post...    Seeing how you are limited by your TV, I would give up on the idea of a HTT (hybrid travel trailer) and look for a pup (pop up)..  You can find lots in the 3000lb GVWR and under range that should suit your family for a few years... 

Another reason you'll want to avoid the HTT with the Pilot is the frontal area, quick search of Google turned up nothing, but IIRC Honda has rather limited frontal area ... A pup will have a very small frontal areaas most of the trailer will be hidden behind the TV..    Also as was mentioned in one of your threads, Honda doesn't recommend the use of WDH (weight distributing hitch) something your going to want with a HTT...   

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